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MLB Thinks Gooden is in the Hall

12
Vote

by user DNL

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more "on the DL" opinions

Yesterday, I wondered if Dwight Gooden's first ten years was the stuff worthy of Cooperstown. Because of the short-career fiction I posited, I needed a benchmark, and went with Sandy Koufax, who pitched 12 seasons (and really only 10 full ones).

Even though I expressed skepticism about short-career Gooden's Hall chances, others were doubly so. There was not one person who thought even this hypothetical Dr. K would be Hall-worthy.

Indeed, many even took exception with my comparison of Gooden and Koufax. To wit, here are some comments:

  • Anonymous Fanatic: "gooden was no koufax stop...it is embarrassing to compare gooden to a hall of famer"
  • Darrel: "Comparing him to Koufax isn't doing him any favors"
  • ASwaff: "I agree that the comparisons to Koufax aren't good ones."
  • Bball3345: "In those 10 years, Gooden won 9 more games than he was expected to win based on the amount of runs he gave up and the amount his team scored. Koufax won 5 more than expected. So you could argue Gooden would be under 150 wins with 4 of those 10 years having an ERA+ of 101 or under. Take out the 1985 season and there would be no mention of Gooden's name in a Hall of Fame discussion."
  • Another Anonymous Fanatic: "Koufax was more dominant, in Ks, ERA, and WHIP"

They're all correct. I chose Koufax because, as ASwaff said, "that comparison is time frame." To a large degree, my hands were tied, as beyond Koufax there are few other short-career Hall of Famers.

In fact, no one knowledgable would consider Koufax and Gooden in the same class of pitcher. No one, apparently, except Major League Baseball itself.

Yesterday, my 2006 MLB.com Spring Catalog came in the mail. It would have just as quickly gone into the trash, but it just happened to open to the "Cooperstown" page. Lo and behold, for the low, low price of $249.99, one can buy a Sandy Koufax jersey. Other Hall of Famers also have their retro-jerseys available. Listed with Koufax are Roberto Clemente, Ernie Banks, and Nellie Fox.

And one other guy. For $299.99 -- that's right, fifty dollars more than Koufax -- one can buy another jersey from the Cooperstown collection:

A Dwight Gooden jersey.


The Catalog Page


Date

Thu 04/06/06, 7:33 am EST <pageTools></pageTools>

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Anonymous Fanatic #1
841 days ago
Score 5+-
that's the MLB cocaine rehabilitation tax.
Permalink | Reply
Anonymous Fanatic #2
841 days ago
Score -1+-
First of all, I am against Koufax being in the Hall of Fame. Gooden was as good as anyone I have seen during my 37 years of existence; until he went down the wrong path and screwed his career and life up. I can't compare apples to oranges so I won't. Also, merchandise that is related to a New York market (Yankees, especially) will still cost the most (even if it is Gooden). The Cooperstown collection represents more than just players in the HOF. It also represents retro-jerseys and hats. I am a Phillies fan, and a Dave Cash jersey goes for 300+ dollars (and he was nowhere near worthy of the HOF)..but hey Phil Rizuto made it, why not any other player who ever played?
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Anonymous Fanatic #3
841 days ago
Score 1+-
Koufax, in my opinion, is the most dominant pitcher of all-time.
Permalink | Reply
Awrigh01All-Star
841 days ago
Score 1+-
Koufax was amazing. Please, Gooden doesn't come close.
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MetsJetsDevilsDraft Pick
841 days ago
Score -7+-
Koufax is better than Shawn Green. I don't think Scott Shoeinweiss or David Eckstein are Jewish. Thats what is really important.
Permalink | Reply
DNLLegend
841 days ago
Score -3+-
Hank Greenberg >>>> Shawn Green.
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Anonymous Fanatic #2
841 days ago
Score -2+-
I hope you Koufax lovers are in your 60s and actually saw him pitch. He was the best for 5 years of his Era based on stats.. no doubt. I am not comparing Gooden to Koufax. I am saying Gooden is the best pitcher I "saw" pitch before he screwed his life up. I take stats with a grain of salt (a lot of pitchers had good seasons in that time because of the raised mounds)..I am going by what I witnessed.
Permalink | Reply
DNLLegend
841 days ago
Score -3+-
Oh, it took me a while to figure out that you're the same poster as a few posts ago... create an account and make it easier to figure out what you're talking about!

As a Phillies fan, how do you compare Gooden to Carlton?

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Anonymous Fanatic #4
841 days ago
Score 1+-
There's a great post up at <a href="http://www.s...4/06/1458243">sportsdot</a>. You can look at what Koufax said about it twenty years ago:

"I'd trade anyone's past for Gooden's future.

Permalink | Reply
PopjonesWaterboy
841 days ago
Score -3+-
I doubt many of the kids MLB is pandering to has ever heard of Sandy Koufax.
Permalink | Reply
MetsJetsDevilsDraft Pick
841 days ago
Score -3+-
Except in Crown Heights! They watch his old videos while istening to Matisyahu.
Permalink | Reply
Anonymous Fanatic #5
841 days ago
Score 1+-
when you compare eras you have to look at how dominant a pitcher was against his peers. koufax was in a class by himself. gooden i am afraid was not. he had one spectacular year and that was it. don't forget it was darling and ojeda that won the world series not gooden. and whether someone has heard of koufax or not is irrelavant. many kids mlb is pandering has never heard of bill clinton or general eisenhower what does that prove?
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Anonymous Fanatic #6
841 days ago
Score 5+-
Gooden was my favorite player growing up, but any talk of him making the HOF or comparing him to Koufax is just idle chatter meant to provoke. His lifetime ERA+ was 110 vs. Koufax's 131. You're basically making a case for Jamie Moyer being in the Hall (career 107 ERA+). You want to talk about a borderline HOF former Met (and Yankee), discuss David Cone. 194 career wins probably won't do it, but he had eight absolutely dominating years from '92 through '99, was part of a World Series winner and has a Cy Young to his credit. He's a much better candidate than Doctor K.
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Anonymous Fanatic #7
836 days ago
Score 0+-
Gooden was a phenomenal pitcher in 1984 and 1985. But he started slipping in 1986 - Mel Stottlemyre had to make up that story about Gooden tryoing to get more ground ball outs to stop reporters from asking why his Ks were down - and things got worse every season from there. Many people didn't notice because the Mets gave Gooden incredible run support for years, but by 1988 Gooden had become only an average pitcher.
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Anonymous Fanatic #8
721 days ago
Score 0+-
Gooden was not great after 1988 but he was certainly better than average. Average pitchers don't go 19-7 (1990) and don't pitch no hitters.
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Anonymous Fanatic #9
379 days ago
Score 0+-
Most dominating pitcher for a stretch of 7-8 years would be Mr Randy Johnson. Better record than Koufax, less starts
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This page was last modified 12:40, 6 April 2006. Content is available under the GFDL.

Categories: Opinions | Opinions by User DNL | MLB Opinions | National Baseball Hall of Fame Opinions | Dwight Gooden Opinions | Sandy Koufax Opinions | New York Mets Opinions | April 6, 2006

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