armchairgm
all sports, all you
+ Add Friends
You are not logged-in.
Sign Up - Log In
Main Page
Sports
Write
Articles
Hot Links
Images
Meet People
Fun
Explore
MLB - NFL - NBA - NHL - College Basketball - College Football - Soccer - Nascar - Other
Article - Locker Room Discussion
All Articles - New Articles - Today's Articles
Submit a Link - Approve Links
Picture Game - Ratings - Polls - Pick Game - Quiz Game - Spring Silliness
Random Page - Random Image - Random Fan
Edit
Page history Discuss pageWhat links here

Can You Beat The All-25-Year Mets Team?

20
Vote

by user DNL

Consider yourself challenged. Your job: Beat my Mets.

I went through the last 25 years of Mets history -- 1983 through 2006, inclusive -- and put together a team. A starter at each position. A backup catcher, middle infielder, and outfielder. An extra bat off the bench. A defensive replacement-type. Five starters, 1 closer, and five relievers.

Easy? Sure, except:

  • I took only one player per year.
  • Once I used a player, he couldn't be used again (e.g. only one Dwight Gooden)
  • The player really needed to have the position he's in -- so I couldn't put Todd Hundley as a backup catcher or use John Olerud off the bench.
  • Your rotation's order has to be reasonable. That's not really hard, but whatever.

That's what I did, below. I gave you their OPS+ and ERA+ first, because I clearly had to find metrics that were static across a 25 year period.

Do the same for your team, and I'll simulate a 25-game series if I can find a way to do it well and for free.

Starting Lineup

  1. Carlos Beltran, 2006, 153 OPS+, Center Field. A lot of very bright spots on this year's Mets team means a tough choice, but a Met-record 41 homers, combined with great defense, 18 swipes in 21 tries, and a .388 OBP makes Beltran's 2006 season a must-have. He makes for a good leadoff hitter for this fantasy team, too.
  2. Keith Hernandez, 1984, 143 OPS+, First Base. As big of a Mex fan I am, I recognize that I should have passed him over for John Olerud, and am forced to assert that I took Hernandez not because he's better, but because he fit better. So, there you have it. But his .311 BA and .409 OBP look nice in the two-hole, as do his 15 homers.
  3. Mike Piazza, 2000, 159 OPS+, Catcher. It was actually hard to take Piazza here over Edgardo Alfonzo, but it's hard to argue with a catcher going .324/.398/.614 with 38 homers.
  4. Howard Johnson, 1989, 169 OPS+, Third Base. The 169 OPS+ is the best in Mets history, regardless of position. Oh, and he stole 41 bases in 49 attempts.
  5. Darryl Strawberry, 1987, 162 OPS+, Right Field. 39 homers, 32 doubles, 36 SB, great defense. If the Mets had won the pennant, he'd have won the MVP. Career highs in all three categories mentioned -- and in runs, BA, OBP, and SLG, and his second-best RBI total.
  6. Bernard Gilkey, 1996, 157 OPS+, Left Field. 30 homers and a .311/.393/.562 line. Not bad, but really not all that great for a "best of" team in a hitter-friendly position like LF.
  7. Gregg Jefferies, 1990, 111 OPS+, Second Base. Ugh. Not even close to the Mets best 2B in the era, and not in the top 7 players on his own team that year. But I'm stuck in a lot of conflicts with everyone else, and Jeffries is good enough.
  8. Jose Reyes, 2003, 100 OPS+, Shortstop. If you want to know why Mets fans love Jose so much, here it goes: this was actually a pretty solid year at shortstop for the Mets during this span. Really. Before Reyes' short-season 100 OPS+, the Mets never had starting a SS hit 100 OPS+. I mean, going back to 1962, not a one. So, yeah, I'll take this.

Bench

Middle Infielder: Desi Relaford, 2001, 120 OPS+. He could play anywhere -- literally. He pitched one inning, was perfect, and even notched a strikeout. A .364 OBP and .472 SLG off the bench was nice, too.

Utility Outfielder: Kevin Mitchell, 1986, 125 OPS+. On a team that was solid, top-to-bottom, I grabbed Mitchell, because I don't think you'll see a backup OF and SS (albeit a terrible one) who ever puts up a 125 OPS+ again in 328 at bats. And because while this Mets team was great, no one player was truly superb.

Backup catcher: Charlie O'Brien, 1992, 75 OPS+. Man, that team sucked. O'Brien's OPS+ was actually better than both Mackey Sasser's (63) and the starter's (Todd Hundley, 62).

Other pinch hitter: Eric Valent, 2004, 110 OPS+. A solid lefty bat as a fill-in corner OF who could also play 1B.

Defensive replacement: Jay Payton, 2002, 102 OPS+. Six OF assists and one error in half a season, and I need someone in this slot and in this year. S'okay.

Starting Rotation

  1. Dwight Gooden, 1985, ERA+ 226. A no-brainer. Cy Gooden won pitching's Triple Crown, was #2 in WHIP (to John Tudor) and in K/9 (to teammate Sid Fernandez). One of the all-time great seasons in MLB history.
  2. David Cone, 1988, 145 ERA+. 20-3. 213 K in 231 IP. Second in the league in ERA, Ks, and tied for third in wins.
  3. Al Leiter, 1998, 170 ERA+. The hardest inclusion on the team, because it means I passed up on John Olerud's ridiculous .447 OBP that year. But when you're third in the league in ERA, go 17-6, and have an ERA+ like that, you make the team over a batter. Oh, and having Keith Hernandez as a "fallback" at 1B isn't so bad and a lefty in the rotation.
  4. Pedro Martinez, 2005, 148 ERA+. When a 208 strikeout, 2.82 ERA, and .949 WHIP fills your 4th slot, and the guy's name is Pedro, wow.
  5. Rick Reed, 1997, 140 ERA+. This should have been Bret Saberhagen's incredible 1994 season, where he put up a 152 ERA+ and a 14-4 record. But 1997 was really weak for the Mets, with the bright spots being Olerud and Hundley. So, I went with Reed here and Hernandez's 1984 season at 1B, because that season was similarly weak for the Mets in terms of standout players.

Bullpen

  • Armando Benitez, 1999, 237 ERA+. 40 hits and 128 strikeouts -- really -- in 78 IP. 41 walks are acceptable when your other numbers are like that.

Middle Relievers:

  • Jesse Orosco, 1983, 247 ERA+. The '83 Mets won a mere 68 games. Orosco notched 17 saves and 13 wins. He tossed 110 IP in 62 games, and allowed only 112 base runners -- including 7 vian an IBB. And he gave up only three homers. Finished only 42 games, while Doug Sisk finished 39 (with a not-insignificant 11 saves), so I don't mind not calling him a "closer".
  • Josias Manzanillo, 1994, 157 ERA+. A strangely dominant season from a scrub. 48 Ks in 47.3 IP. A WHIP a shade under 1.00. Waived the next season after allowing 15 runs (14 earned) in 16 years. But I'll take it.
  • Jeff Innis, 1991, 137 ERA+. Not great, but 89 BB+H in 84.7 IP.
  • Doug Henry, 1995. 142 ERA+. Not great, but 73 BB+H in 67 IP, and a solid 62 Ks.
  • Anthony Young, 1993, 104 ERA+. Yes, I could have found a better player. But this was the 59 win Mets team; the Anthony Young of 27 straight losses, and everyone needs a garbage time player. Young ate 100.3 innings that year and, honestly, wasn't all that bad. With an ERA slightly better than league average, hereally didn't deserve that 1-16 record -- but who ever does?


Enable Comment Auto-Refresher
Bball3345Draft Pick
545 days ago
Score 0+-
As soon as I wrap-up school this week, I will get one done for the Pirates and the Braves if no one else does them.
Permalink | Reply
KelsdadAll-Star
545 days ago
Score 0+-
Think I can do a 62-82 Mets team as good as this one? This is great by the way, I'll do a Yankees one, pick a time frame for me, last 25 too easy.
Permalink | Reply
DNLLegend
545 days ago
Score 1+-
Yeah, the Yankees would be amazing. But what about 1970-1994? And the 62-82 Mets would suck and be short 4 players :)
Permalink
Anonymous Fanatic #1
545 days ago
Score 0+-
you forgot "Clubhouse - playing cards": Bobby Bonilla and Ricky Henderson
Permalink | Reply
DNLLegend
545 days ago
Score 0+-
I really have no problem with the card playing, and Rickey is one of my favorite players ever. Bonilla would have made the team for his 1995 (?) season, had he not been traded mid-year -- he was crushing the ball.
Permalink
Manny StilesAAA-er
545 days ago
Score 0+-
what about the firecracker tossers and bleach Super Soakers Vince Coleman and Bret Saberhagen (you'll never live it down fellas)
Permalink
DNLLegend
545 days ago
Score 0+-
Admittedly, Manny, Saberhagen's misdeeds were the thumb on the scale that made me go with Reed.
Permalink
False ProphetAll-Star
545 days ago
Score 0+-
I'm sure the 25 Year Twins Team could do it, although that'll be hard to do with only 1 player from each year I might have to bend that rule once
Permalink | Reply
KelsdadAll-Star
545 days ago
Score 0+-
The Yankees actually sucked pretty bad mid to late sixties, so I'll go with 1965-1990.
Permalink | Reply
Alex HolowczakHall of Famer
545 days ago
Score 0+-
I reckon a Red Wings team from 1987-2007 (that would be 21 seasons, but minus 1 for the lockout - you only need 20 for NHL) would be pretty dominant.
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesAAA-er
545 days ago
Score 0+-
Ummmm, ok... You're All 25 years of Mets vs. My Last All 25 Years of All-Stars Starters.
Permalink | Reply
TylersaltAll-Star
545 days ago
Score 0+-
This oughta be fun... I'll throw together a Red Sox one at some point.
Permalink | Reply
Anonymous Fanatic #2
545 days ago
Score -2+-
My softball team could beat those bums...
Permalink | Reply
TheantihippyLittle Leaguer
545 days ago
Score 3+-
I think I can beat that. I expanded it an extra year to '82. 83-06 is only 24 years and that didn't allow room for a DH. So here's the all-Sox team for the last 25 years.

Starting line up 1. Wade Boggs, 1987, 173 OPS+, 3B - Boggs was the easy choice at third, but it was tough to pick one year from a Hall of Fame career. '87 jumped out though, when he hit a career high 24 homers to go with a .461 OBP and .588 SLG 2. Nomar Garciaparra, 1999, 152 OPS+ , SS - He hit more homers in '98 and had a higher AVG in '00, but the '99 version of Nomar posted a career high .603 SLG to go along with his .357 AVG. 3. Manny Ramirez, 2001, 162 OPS+, LF - Manny's first year in Boston wasn't his best with the team, but you can't really go wrong with any year from this guy. Rice and Greenwell had some good years for the Sox in left, but there are very few guys in the history of the game who can even compare with Manny. 4. David Ortiz, 2005, 161 OPS+, DH - He hit more homers in '06, but in '05 Ortiz was still one of the most feared hitters in the game and 47 HR to go with 148 RBI and a .300 AVG is nothing to sneeze at. 5. Mo Vaughn, 1998, 155 OPS+, 1B - Vaughn is, by far, the best firstbaseman the Sox have had in my lifetime. He won the MVP in '95 and hit 44 HR in '96, but in '98 he set career highs in AVG with .337 and SLG with .591. 6. Tony Armas, 1984, 121 OPS+, CF - Yeah, the .300 OBP is a little tough to take. And Ellis Burks and Johnny Damon had some great years in center for Boston. But in '84 Armas lead the league in HR with 43 (8 more than the 2nd place guy) and RBI with 123. His power was too impressive to leave him out of the lineup. 7. Dwight Evans, 1988, 136 OPS+, RF - He had better years with the club, but at the age of 36 he still put up a .293/.375/.487 line with 21 homers and 111 RBI 8. Jason Varitek, 2003, 120 OPS+, C - Varitek is known for bringing a lot to the table in all areas of the game. 2003 was his best year for power as he set career highs in HR with 25, RBI with 85, and SLG with .512 9. Jeff Frye, 1997, 103OPS+, 2B The Sox have a new starter at second every year and most of them aren't very good. But Frye put together a good season with the bat in '97. It's not bad when your #9 hitter is batting .312

Backup Catcher - Rich Gedman, 1983, 102 OPS+ - Gedman had 3 good years as the Sox starting catcher and another half a dozen years as a good backup. He hit .294 in '83. Backup Infielder - Tim Naehring, 1993, 111 OPS+ - Naehring never lived up to his promise because of injuries and injuries took a big toll in '93. He appeared in only 39 games, but when he was in the lineup he hit .331. Backup Outfielder - Phil Plantier, 1991, 178 OPS+ - In '91 Plantier spent his spring and much of his summer in the minors before spending the rest of the summer as a pinch hitter/backup outfielder. He grabbed the starting job in September and excited a lot of Sox fans with a .331/.420/.615 line and 11 HR in just 148 AB. Pinch Hitter - Reggie Jefferson, 1996, 141 OPS+ - As long as he never faced a lefty, Jefferson couldn't be stopped in '96 hitting .347/.388/.593 while splitting time at DH, 1B, and the OF Defensive Replacement - Carlos Rodriguez, 1994, 83 OPS+ - He made just 6 errors in 57 games split amongst second, short, and third. He even managed to hit .287 while doing it.

Starter 1 - Pedro Martinez, 2000, 285 ERA+ - In 1880 Tim Keefe posted a 0.86 ERA in 105 IP for the Troy Trojans. He is the only pitcher in the history of major league baseball to turn in a better ERA+ in a single season than Pedro Martinez in 2000. Pedro went 18-6 in 217 IP and had a 1.74 ERA against a league average of 4.97 for an absolutely ridiculous ERA+ of 285. Starter 2 - Roger Clemens, 1990, 211 ERA+ - Clemens has never been as dominant as Pedro in his prime, but then again, no one ever has been. But that doesn't make Clemens any less of an amazing Hall of Fame player. In 1990 he went 21-6 with a 1.93 ERA in 228 IP. Starter 3 - Curt Schilling, 2004, 150 ERA+ - A lot of folks don't like the guy because he does like to talk too much. But his '04 season was more fairy tale than real life events. During the winter he appeared in a truck commercial. Someone picked him up in Arizona and asked where he was headed. "Boston. I'm going to break an 86 year old curse". A 21-6 record with a 3.26 ERA, a 2nd place finish in the Cy Young voting, and some postseason, bloody sock heroics later and he made good on his word. Starter 4 - Derek Lowe, 2002, 171 ERA+ - Lowe did it all in his time with the Sox. He was a dominant closer, a mop up reliever, a postseason hero, a bottom of the rotation starter, and in 2002 he was nearly a Cy Young winner going 21-8 with a 2.58 ERA. Starter 5 - Tim Wakefield, 1995, 163 ERA+ - The first year of his long Sox career was his best when he went 16-8 with a 2.95 ERA.

Closer - Jonathan Papelbon, 2006, 500 ERA+ - The Sox have had some decent closers over the years including Tom Gordon, Derek Lowe, Lee Smith, Jeff Reardon, Keith Foulke, and Bob Stanley. But none of them ever had a year as good as Papelbon's in '06. He had a 0.92 ERA with 35 saves before being shut down in September.

RP - Tom Burgmeier, 1982, 189 ERA+ - Burgmeier had 102 IP in just 40 games, all out of the bullpen in '82. You just don't see that anymore. He also went 7-0 with a couple of saves and a 2.29 ERA that year. RP - Dennis Lamp, 1989, 178 ERA+ - He posted a 2.32 ERA in 112 IP, all out of the bullpen. It was one of the best years of his career and it came at the age of 36. RP - Bob Stanley, 1985, 149 ERA+ - Stanley shared what few save oppurtunities that the Sox had in '85. He had 10 saves, 2 behind Sam Crawford, the team's leader in that category. Stanley also put up a 2.87 ERA. RP - Calvin Schiraldi - 1986, 297 ERA+ - He appeared in juust 25 games, but still managed to get 9 saves and had a 1.41 ERA in 51 IP.

RP - Greg Harris - 1992, 169 ERA+ - He made 2 starts for the Sox, but the former starter pitched mostly out of the bullpen in '92 and gave the team a 2.51 ERA in 107 IP.
Permalink | Reply
TheantihippyLittle Leaguer
545 days ago
Score 1+-
Damn....the linebreaks didn't work so well. Ah well, at least it's readable.
Permalink
Bball3345Draft Pick
545 days ago
Score 3+-
You should just make that an opinion on its own.
Permalink
DNLLegend
545 days ago
Score 2+-
You're right, it's only 24 players -- I guess I get one more. And yea, make it an opinion!
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
545 days ago
Score 0+-
Clemens never as dominant as Pedro? MORON!!
Permalink | Reply
Davis21wylieAll-Star
545 days ago
Score 2+-
Pedro's peak ERA+ was 285 in 2000 (a 1.74 ERA when the league's was 4.97), the greatest season by a pitcher in modern baseball history; he also threw down an ERA+ of 245 in 1999, 9th-best ever. Rocket has had ERA+ seasons of 226, 221, and 211 (which rank 12th, 16th, and 27th, respectively), but never at his peak (or anybody's peak, for that matter) was he as flat-out dominant as Petey. The only modern pitcher who holds a candle to Pedro is Greg Maddux, who put up ERA+'s of 273 and 259 (4th and 5th all-time) in 1994-95.
Permalink
DNLLegend
545 days ago
Score 0+-
When did I say that?
Permalink
TheantihippyLittle Leaguer
545 days ago
Score 4+-
First of all, when you result to insults that quickly, you're the one that winds up looking pretty stupid. And second of all, if you're not going to try to back up your opinion, then getting into a debate is pretty useless. But just take a look at the numbers. Pedro has a career ERA of 2.81 and an ERA+ of 160. Roger Clemens has a career ERA of 3.10 and an ERA+ of 144. Pedro's years in Boston were was the dominant stretch by any pitcher in the history of the game. Clemens had some damned good years and is a first ballot hall of famer, but no, he was never as dominant as Pedro.
Permalink
DNLLegend
545 days ago
Score 2+-
So, turns out I should have gone back to 1982. In that case, Wally Backman would have been my 2B -- OPS+ of 115, .387 OBP, and I like him. With 1990 freed up, I'll deepen my pen with Wally Whitehurst. His 114 ERA+ is unspectacular, but 9 BB in 65.7 IP is cool.
Permalink | Reply
Manny StilesAAA-er
545 days ago
Score 0+-
You pulled the Wally Whitehurst lever... wow!
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
545 days ago
Score 0+-
We're only talking about one stat, and a not very meaningful one at that.
Permalink | Reply
Davis21wylieAll-Star
545 days ago
Score 2+-
Yeah, I've always found that a pitcher's ERA says nothing about how good he is!
Permalink
Manny StilesAAA-er
543 days ago
Score 0+-
not as much as wins...
Permalink
TartanVarsity Captain
544 days ago
Score 0+-
Give me 35 years and the 1973-present Reds could destroy that team. Funny math on 25 years being from 1983-2006 by the way.
Permalink | Reply
DNLLegend
544 days ago
Score 0+-
Yeah, well... I count good.
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
544 days ago
Score 0+-
Give me a break, the stat is ERA+, not actual ERA. Big difference.
Permalink
Davis21wylieAll-Star
544 days ago
Score 1+-
What's the difference? ERA+ is simply park-adjusted ERA compared to the league average ERA, to account for different offensive conditions in different leagues. I'm not seeing much of a difference, except that ERA+ is better than raw ERA because it takes into account parks and leagues.
Permalink
Darkstar1661Little Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 0+-
First post... Hello everyone! Just figured this was too fun not to do!

So, I'm currently working on a Tribe team from 82-06 (to include the AL-DH like AntiHippy) but had a question, what is considered cheating?

I only ask because I see my pickings are rather thin in the 80s (man these teams sucked!) but noticed this line as a possible backup catcher: Jamie Quirk 1983, 26G, 1AB, 1H, 1HR ~ 1.000 BA / 1.000 OBP / 4.000 SLG what a stat-line huh! ... is that considered cheating if I wanted to find a nice powerful backup catcher? :) If we were to put all this into a simulator would it increase his AB total because of the days off to my normal C, which would in turn increase my H & HR total by... well tons?

I'm not planing on taking him for my club, just curious as to what people feel that line will do to my team really.
Permalink | Reply
KelsdadAll-Star
544 days ago
Score 0+-
He would be considered your backup catcher on the team, and would constitute your player from 1983. Whatever simulator is being used will automatically consider him a backup. What Davis' rule is you can't use a starter as a backup.
Permalink | Reply
Darkstar1661Little Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 0+-
Ok, first off made a boo-boo on the year ~ its 1984 for Quirk ... oh and his OPS+ was 1201. Correct me if I'm wrong, but thats kinda high right? :p
Permalink
Anonymous Fanatic #3
544 days ago
Score 0+-
But ERA is a true number, ERA+ is a speculative number. They take into consideration intangibles which in some cases cannot be measured.
Permalink | Reply
Bball3345Draft Pick
544 days ago
Score 0+-
Intangibles? Like what?
Permalink
Davis21wylieAll-Star
544 days ago
Score 0+-
Well, park effects are somewhat speculative, I'll grant you that, and league ERA says nothing of league quality of batters -- if anything, batters have been steadily getting better every year since the beginning of baseball. But ERA itself is far from a "true" number; it can be colored by errors (a scorer's opinion), as well as the defense's ability to turn balls in play into outs, and the performance of the relievers following a pitcher. Point is, I'd rather have an admittedly flawed stat that at least tries to account for changing conditions (surely you'll agree that a 4.00 ERA in Coors Field '96 is vastly different from a 4.00 ERA in Dodger Stadium '68) than an admittedly flawed stat that you can't do any cross-era comparisons with.
Permalink
I am a cpcpMajor Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 0+-
I'd smack you around with a 25-year Tribe team, but I don't think I have to say anything more than Corey Snyder and Brook Jacoby. Oh wait... Can I pick the 25 years?
Permalink | Reply
Darkstar1661Little Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 0+-
no kidding! Ok... I'll take 1947, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 68, 75, 86, 94... hehehe But there you go, take a swing at that roster!
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
544 days ago
Score 0+-
Is it a case of batters getting better, or pitchers getting worse? There is also a vast difference between a 4.00 ERA at Dodger Stadium in 1968 and a 4.00 ERA at Dodger Stadium in 1996.
Permalink | Reply
Davis21wylieAll-Star
544 days ago
Score 0+-
They've both gotten significantly better. And you just proved my point with your example -- park and league effects matter.
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
544 days ago
Score 0+-
Intangibles are park factors. Put Joe DiMaggio in Fenway and Ted Williams in Yankee Stadium, for example. How about unbalanced schedules? Wouldn't the Pirates have had a better overall record the last five seasons if they were in the NL West instead of Central?
Permalink | Reply
KelsdadAll-Star
544 days ago
Score 0+-
the differences in a 4.00 ERA in Dodger Stadium in 1968 and 1996 aren't related to the park. That's the point. You say its hitting, I say its pitching. You say oranges, I say apples. Would Williams' and DiMaggios' numbers have been different in different parks? Probably so, but since they never played in them you can't project them. At least not accurately.
Permalink | Reply
Davis21wylieAll-Star
544 days ago
Score 2+-
You can at least try. In the words of sabermetrician USPatriot, "An argument against park factors, usually made by sabermetric opponents, is something along the lines of 'Life is not fair; some players have the fortune to play in a park conducive to their talents, others don't. Deal with it.' I believe that there is a lot of truth in this argument; for instance, I don't seek to right all the perceived injustices of the world in doing sabermetrics(like, 'what if Edgar Martinez played before the DH' or, on the flip side of the same debate, 'what if Edgar Martinez wasn't wasted by Seattle for three or four years when he was a good player'). But the argument ignores the cardinal rule of sabermetrics: that it is wins and losses(or as building blocks, runs and outs) that matter. A Dante Bichette who has the good fortune to play at Coors Field will put up gaudy numbers--but even in that context, they do not translate to wins. Park Factors are a step along the way of determining the value(or the theoretical value under other circumstances) or player performance. Martinez may have been helped by the DH rule--but it was a reality and using it, he produced real wins for the Mariners. Bichette was helped by Coors Field--but in doing so, it didn't help the Rockies win baseball games."

You simply can't leave a guy like Bichette's numbers unadjusted for Coors. No matter how flawed park factors are, you have to recognize that it's better than nothing, and apply them to his stats -- or he comes off looking like the second coming of Ralph Kiner (or somebody even better than that). Likewise, you can't leave his stats unadjusted for the fact that, for whatever reason (bad pitchers, livelier balls, steroids, etc.), runs were a lot more plentiful in, say, 1999 than they were in 1968 -- runs created/produced/batted in/scored/etc. were less valuable that year than they were in the past, because they weren't as scarce.

In fact, a lot of times, it's not about saying what a Williams or DiMaggio "would have done" in a certain park/league as much as it is adjusting for the fact that runs scored get more or less valuable to teams (in terms of wins) based on how scarce runs were in a certain environment. In other words, when we adjust Pedro's stats, it's mainly about recognizing that his 1.74 ERA in 2000 was more valuable to the Red Sox than Sandy Koufax's 1.74 ERA in 1964 was to L.A., because runs were easier to prevent in Dodger Stadium in 1964 than they were in Fenway in 2000.
Permalink
Anonymous Fanatic #4
544 days ago
Score 0+-
I love things like this, so I went ahead and put together such a team for my White Sox. You can find it here (any and all comments more than welcome): http://mvn.c...entury-team/
Permalink | Reply
Anonymous Fanatic #5
543 days ago
Score 0+-
To be fair, Koufax in 1965 was much more valuable than Pedro in 2000. Pedro pitched only 217 innings compared to Koufax's 335. If Sandy only had to pitch 7 and a half innings per start for 29 starts his stats would have been better. On the other hand, if Pedro tried to pitch 27 complete games in a year, it is likely his arm would have fallen off.
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
544 days ago
Score 0+-
Because Coors Field treats opponents as equals, that's why the win shares or runs created are negated. Bichette, or any player for that matter, has the same value to his team regardless of what park he plays in. Would Ryan Howard have hit 58 homers playing in Shea Stadium last year? Of course not, but the number he ended up with, whether it be 35 or 40, would have had the same value to his team.

Kiner is a great example, here's a guy who led the league several times in homers and finished last every year of his career I think but one or two. So in relation to his teams performance, his homers had no value?

I agree 100% with your last statement, Pedro's 1.74 is better in the context of the game than Koufax' was.
Permalink | Reply
Bball3345Draft Pick
544 days ago
Score 2+-
Kelsdad, I think you missed the point of Davis' argument. See if this example makes more sense...

Take Player A: he plays in Coors Field and let's assume it takes 10 runs on average to earn a win. Player A contributes 1 run per game. In other words, he is worth 1/10=0.1 wins.

Take Player B: He plays in Petco Park where runs are harder to come by. It takes, on average, only 5 runs to win a game. Player B contributes 1 run per game on average, just like Player A. However, that is worth 1/5=0.2 wins.

Player A and Player B both contribute 1 run per game, but if you adjust for their parks, you can see Player B is in fact the more valuable player.

Does that make sense?
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
544 days ago
Score 0+-
It does, and thanks for the clarification, but I understand where he's going. What if player A and Player B were the same? Did Brian Giles all of a sudden start sucking in San Diego? No, its because his one run a game became .05 a game in a more pitching friendly enviornment, but it has the same meaning. Giles has the same value to his team in either park.

In your scenario Tim, player B is the better player based on talent, not park factor. He may be worth 2 runs a game in Coors.

I believe in park factors to an extent it affects a team more so than an individual player does. The biggest argument for this is in the '70's where teams had artificial surfaces and built their teams on speed. Routine ground balls became doubles and triples because of an intangible factor...the playing surface. Vince Coleman was a terrible player and likely would have been nothing more than a reserve, if that, if there were no artificial surfaces. But that's an extreme example. In most cases, as Davis mentioned, its tough luck. Alfonso Soriano hit 45 homers in a hitters park in Texas and goes to a pitchers park in Washington and everyone says he'll be lucky to hit 30, and what does he do? So much for park factor.

Wrigley Field is known as a hitters park, but the Cubs have had both Hall of Fame hitters AND pitchers in the last fifty years and can't win. Why? Maybe there is a curse, but I can tell you it's not the park, because the visitor's play in the same conditions.
Permalink | Reply
Bball3345Draft Pick
543 days ago
Score 1+-
Exactly, Player B is worth more based on talent. But, if you don't use park factor one would believe they are both worth 1 run per game. After using park factor, you realize Player B is more valuable and thus more talented.
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
543 days ago
Score 0+-
Value doesnt always relate to talent.
Permalink
Davis21wylieAll-Star
543 days ago
Score 0+-
I agree.
Permalink
VaughanTee-Baller
544 days ago
Score 0+-
Here's the 25 man White Sox team, which I’d be happy to take my chances with. The starting lineup:

1. CF: Aaron Rowand (2004): not the ideal leadoff hitter, but his .310 BA, 126 OPS+ and 17 steals will set the table 2. 3b: Robin Ventura(1995): Gold glove caliber defense, a 131 OPS+ and a .384 OBP 3. 1b: Frank Thomas (1994) What can you say about one of the best offensive seasons ever? A mind boggling 212 OPS+ highlighted by a .487 OBP and a .729 SLG%. 4. LF: Albert Belle, 48 doubles, 49 homers and an OPS+ of 171. Too bad Thomas didn’t hit when Belle was with the Sox. 5. DH: Jim Thome (2006): an OBP of .416. And 42 homers in the 2 hole 6. RF: Magglio Ordonez (2002): An OPS+ of 152 with 38 HRS and 135 RBIs. 7. C Carlton Fisk (1988): An OPS+ of 155 with a .542 slg% 8. SS: Jose Valentin(2000): An .843 OPS with 25 homers and 19 SBs. 9. 2b: Ray Durham (1999): The Sox weakest position, and not his best year, but 109 OPS+ and his 34 steals won’t hurt too badly,

Pitching Staff:

SP: Lamar Hoyt (1983): 24 wins, 261 IPS and a whip of 1.02 SP: Alex Fernandez (1996): 16-10, 258 IPs and an ERA+ of 136 SP: Mark Buerhle (2005): 16-8 with an era+ of 143 SP: Esteban Loiaza (2003): 21-9, an era+ of 154 and led the AL in strikeouts SP: Wilson Alvarez(1993): 15-9 with an era+ of 143 RP: Kevin Hickey (1982): a 135 ERA for a lefty long reliever RP Juan Agosto (1984) also a 135 era plus RP: Matt Karchber (1997): a 151 ERA+ for a right handed long reliever RP: Scott Radinsky (1991): a 197 era+ with 8 saves as my lefty setup man RP: Roberto Hernandez: (1992): a 235 era+ with a .92 whip made Thigpen expendable in 1993 CL: Bobby Thigpen (1990): a record setting 57 saves and a 210 era+

Bench:

Middle infielder: Tony Graffinino (2001): can play any infield position and his 103 OPS+ with a .370 OBP isn’t too shabby OF: Ron Kittle (1989): a .556 slg% and 11 homers in 169 abs gives some pop off the bench. C: Ron Hassey (1986): Lefty bat mashed pitching to the tune of a .937 OPS while backing Fisk PH: Jerry Hairston (1987): not the best year (102 OPS+) for a switch hitter who made a career of pitch hitting

Defensvie replacement: Reid Nichols (1985) versatile OF had a 109 OPS+
Permalink | Reply
VaughanTee-Baller
543 days ago
Score 0+-
According to the lineup simulator, my lineup nets 7.276 runs per game. An optimal lineup, Thomas, Thome, Ventura, Belle, Ordonez, Rowand, Fisk, Valentin, Durham, would score 7.416 runs per game.
Permalink
Darkstar1661Little Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 0+-
Ok, so got the Tribe team done. (25 man roster 1982-2006)

My 25YR Cleveland Indians:

~ CF Brett Butler 1985 ~ 123 OPS+, .311/.377/.431…184 H, 28 doubles, 5 triples, 47 SB and amazing defense (I could have gotten a little bit more production out of Milton Bradley from 03, but Brett will be a big part of my clubhouse as well. Besides, don’t think I need much more offense :p Also wanted to mention how tough it was to pass up Sizemore and Loften as a side-note) ~ 2B Roberto Alomar 1999 ~ 140 OPS+, .323/.422/.533… 182 H, 40 doubles, 3 triples, 24 HR, 138 runs, 120 RBI, 37 SB and amazing defense (WOW. I probably could have led him off, but I like it this way ~ like it was in 1999) ~ 1B Jim Thome 2001 ~ 169 OPS+, .291/.416/.624… 153 H, 26 doubles, 49 HR and 124 RBI (2002 was a little better, but I needed the pitching ~ and I think this works fine…) ~ LF Albert ‘Joey’ Belle 1994 ~ 192 OPS+, .357/.438/.714… 147 H, 35 doubles, 2 triples, 36 HR, 90 runs, 101 RBI and even 9 SB in 106 Games (this is one of the greatest offensive outputs ever, unfortunately it came during the strike year so we will never know what it would have been… I chose it because, well WOW. 95 was also amazing, but the BA and OBP weren’t like this) ~ RF Manny Ramirez 2000 ~ 185 OPS+, .351/.457/.697… 154 H, 34 doubles, 2 triples, 38 HR, 122 RBI (Look similar to Belles? Yeah, nice 5 hitter huh. Manny actually only had 30 more AB then Belle in this slightly shorter season for him, but the numbers were just too… well WOW again) ~ DH Travis Hafner 2006 ~ 183 OPS+, .308/.439/.659… 140 H, 31 doubles, 42 HRs, 100 R, 117 RBI (How can you go wrong with Pronk in the 6 spot?) ~ SS Jhonny Peralta 2005 ~ 139 OPS+, .292/.366/.520… 147 H, 35 doubles, 4 triples, 24 HR (Best offensive season by a SS the Tribe has seen, and I’m not going to complain about adding it to my lineup. Omar was great but this is so sweet) ~ C Victor Martinez 2004 ~ 121 OPS+, .283/.359/.492… 147 H, 38 doubles, 23 HR, 108 RBI (Tough choice with 97 Sandy being very similar in production, but I needed a catcher who can play every day ~ you’ll understand when you see my backup. Again not going to complain about the output though) ~ 3B Brook Jacoby 1987 ~ 142 OPS+, .300/.387/.541… 162 H, 26 doubles, 4 triples, 32 HR (Great production on a truly bad team ~ stupid SI.) …So defense isn’t my strong suit but I will beat the crap out of all your starters!

Now the Bench: ~ Backup Catcher Joel Skinner 1989 ~ 61 OPS+, .230/.271/.303…good defender, otherwise nothing much more to say (see why I needed a catcher who plays almost every game? Love him as a coach, terrific guy, but… Hey, it’s the second to last thing I slated, so sue me) ~ Utility Infielder Cory Snyder 1986 ~ 115 OPS+, .272/.299/.500… 113 H, 21 doubles, 24 HR in 416AB (Took Cory because he played 1st, SS, 3rd and the OF plus has my best power bat off the bench) ~ Extra OF Alex Cole 1990 ~ 108 OPS+ .300/.379/.357… 68 H, 5 doubles, 4 triples and only had 227 AB but stole 40 bases! (ok, as a Cle fan I have to say I cant believe I added him to my squad but I had enough power and the BA & OBP looked very nice off the bench, the fielding was a plus and look at all the stolen bases! 40 SB in 63 G! I figure he serves as a good OBP pinch hitter, great pinch runner, great def replacement or perfect lockeroom whipping boy) ~ Extra Defender Alan Bannister 1983 ~ 93 OPS+, .265/.323/.393… 100 H, 25 doubles, 4 triples and 5 HR (not the best bat, but respectable. His positive comes in the fact that he played all the OF spots as well as 1st and 2nd to round out the position missed by Snyder. Not amazing defender, but it works)

Finally, the pitching staff where I ran into a bit of a problem: (notes below)

~ SP Bert Blyleven 1984 ~ 142 ERA+… 19-7 2.87 ERA, 198IP with 170 SO and a 1.135 WHIP ~ SP Bartolo Colon 2002 ~ 177 ERA+… 10-4 2.55 ERA, 116IP with 75 SO and a 1.160 WHIP in 16 starts for Cleveland ~~~~~~~~ Colon 2002 ~ 148 ERA+… 20-8 2.93 ERA, 233IP with 149 SO and 1.239 WHIP in 33 combined games ~ SP Tom Candiotti 1991 ~ 185 ERA+… 7-6 2.24 ERA, 28 BB to 86 SO and a 1.071 WHIP in only 15GS for Tribe ~~~~~~~ Candiotti 1991 ~ 158 ERA+… 13-13 2.65 ERA with a 1.155 WHIP combined ~ SP Charles Nagy 1996 ~ 144 ERA+… 17-5 3.41 ERA, 222IP with 167 Ks. ~ SP Rick Sutcliffe 1982 ~ 138 ERA+… 14-8 2.96 ERA, 216IP with 142 SO

and the Bullpen: (with a honorable mention to Steve Olin, Tim Crews and Cliff Young; you’re still in our hearts… RIP guys!) ~ CL Jose Mesa 1995 ~ 411 ERA+… 3-0 1.12 ERA with 46 Saves and 58 SO in 64 IP (oh when we loved you Jose ~ you forced me to leave Vizquel off so you didn’t kill him though…) ~ RP Derek Lilliquest 1992 ~ 223 ERA+… 5-3 1.75 ERA with 6 saves and 57 H+W in 61IN for a 0.924 WHIP ~ RP Paul Assenmacher 1997 ~ 160 ERA+… 5-0 2.94 ERA with 4 saves and 1.184 WHIP in 49 IP ~ RP Jerry Dipoto 1993 ~ 181 ERA+… 4-4 2.40 ERA with 11 saves in 56 IP for the rookie ~ RP Paul Shuey 1998 ~ 160 ERA+… 5-4 3.00 ERA with 2 saves and 58 SO in 51 IP ~ RP David Riske 2003 ~ 186 ERA+… 2-2 2.29 ERA with 8 saves and a 0.964 WHIP in 74 IP (but much like the real club I am not going to use him in pressure situations!!!) ~ RP Brad Havens 1988 ~ 132 ERA+… 2-3 3.14 ERA with a save in 57 IP. (Nothing special but last spot avail on my club. Plus 3rd lefty in pen ~ nice!)

(note on rotation) My team sucked most of the time and that being the case we would often times see players traded at the deadline. I included Colon from 02 and Candiotti from 91 because they deserve to be here ~ I also included 2 stat-lines for them to show what they were and give and idea of what might have been. Hope that’s acceptable… If not I guess I can trade 02 Thome for 01 Colon, but it’s much better this way. For Toms place I guess I could replace him with 88 Swindell and 82 Whitson in the pen instead of 88 Havens but the way I have it is the best rotation! Just keep in mind that we were always such a horrible team for all those years, I need to have some slack :)

Oh, I also took an extra RP as my 25th man as well, the ‘Extra Hitter’ is really the DH and since I don’t pinch hit for the pitcher this works better for the club.
Permalink | Reply
Darkstar1661Little Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 0+-
Ok, this looked much nicer in Word ~ sorry its hard to read with the sites spacing problems!
Permalink
Darkstar1661Little Leaguer
543 days ago
Score 0+-
Error made in post...
      • 1985 Butler had 28 doubles, *14* triples and *5* HR***
Permalink
Anonymous Fanatic #6
544 days ago
Score 0+-
The Best Jays

(I put totals under the lineups for their stats too)

Starting Lineup

1. John Olerud 1993, 1B, 185 OPS+, LHB, .363/.473/.599, 24 HR, 107 RBI, 200H, 54 2B, 114/65 BB/K. Finished 1st in BA, OBP, OPS, 2B, Times on Base, IBB, Runs Created... His OBP from this monster season is enough to put him in our leadoff spot.

2. Roberto Alomar 1993, 2B, 140 OPS+, RHB, .326/.408/.492, 17 HR, 93 RBI, 192H, 35 2B, 80/67 BB/K. Finished 3rd in BA. All-Star defense for one of the best Blue Jays teams to take the field.

3. Shawn Green 1999, OF, 143 OPS+, LHB, .309/.384/.588, 42 HR, 123 RBI, 190H, 45 2B, 33/117 BB/K. Finished 5th in HR, 1st in 2B and XBH. Gold Glove OF. Monster power contract year.

4. Jose Canseco 1998, DH, 113 OPS+, RHB, .237/.318/.518, 46 HR, 107 RBI, 138H, 26 2B, 28 SB, 65/159 BB/K. Jose had a minor comeback as a Jay having one of his best seasons in years. The Jays finished 26 games behind the Yankees and he was shadowed by the McGuire/Sosa HR race.

5. George Bell 1987, OF, 146 OPS+, RHB, .308/.352/.605, 47 HR, 134 RBI, 188H, 32 2B, 39/75 BB/K. AL MVP, SS. Finished 2nd in HR, 1st in TB, RBI, XBH. He lead the Jays through one of the most thrilling division races in team history with the Jays falling just short. Level of Excellence count = 1.

6. Jessee Barfield 1986, OF, 147 OPS+, RHB, .289/.368/.559, 40 HR, 108 RBI, 170H, 35 2B, 69/146 BB/K. This was Jessee's best year and he earned a Gold Golve and an All-Star appearence on top of it.

7. Darrin Fletcher 2000, C, 116 OPS+, LHB, .320/.355/.514, 20 HR, 80 RBI. Solid defense behind the plate from one of our future color commentators.

8. Troy Glaus 2006, 3B, 119 OPS+, RHB, .252/.355/.513, 38 HR, 104 RBI, 136H, 27 2B, 86/134 BB/K. Troy was brought in to be the bopper in a heavy hitting Jays lineup. He had a solid season at the plate and provided great defense at 3B. There were better defenders on the list but how can you resist the urge to put a power hitter in the #8 slot?

9. Tony Fernandez 1986, SS, 106 OPS+, RHB, .310/.338/.428, 10 HR, 65 RBI, 213 H, 33 2B, 25 SB. 213 hits set a record for shortstops only to be beaten by Alex Rodreiguez in 1996.

Bench

Middle Infielder: Frank Menechino, IF, 2004 119 OPS+, RHB, .301/.400/.504. 71G, Gritty defender and a bat that came out of nowhere for a team that finished 5th...

Utility Outfielder: Frank Catalanotto, OF, 2005 115 OPS+, LHB, .301/.367/.451, 8HR, 59 RBI. A solid .300 leftie hitter off the bench for a late game defensive sub or pinch hit.

Backup catcher: Gregg Zaun, C, 2006, 110 OPS+, SWITCH, .272/.363/.462, 12 HR, 40 RBI. Forced into a backup role after a breakout (at age 34) season in 2005.

Other pinch hitter: Juan Beniquez, DH/OF/PH, 1988, 112 OPS+, RHB, .293/.373/.379, 27 G, 1HR.

Defensive replacement: Alfredo Griffin, 2B/SS, 1992, RHB, .233/.273/.280, 63 G, solid defense and a great vetern pickup for the playoffs.

Hitting Totals: .298/.371/.517, 314 HR, 1072 Runs Scored.

Starting Rotation

1. Roger Clemens 1997 ERA+ 226 21-7 264.0 IP 292/68 K/BB 1.030 WHIP 9 CG 3 SHO. Clemens was considered by many to be in the twilight of his career when he signed with the Jays. 2 Cy Youngs and 2 triple crowns later and my hardest choice is which season to use.

2. Roy Halladay 2003 ERA+ 145 22-7 266.0 IP 204/32 K/BB 1.071 WHIP 9 CG 2 SHO. "Doc" Halladay is a true ace of any staff and this season he lead the AL in innings and tied for the lead in complete games.

3. Pat Hentgen 1996 ERA+ 165 20-10 265.7 IP 177/94 K/BB 1.250 WHIP 10 CG 3 SHO. Each Jays hometown hero managed at least one epic season and Hentgen is no different. He helped bring home the repeat in '93 and anchored the staff through the late '90s.

4. Jimmy Key 1987 ERA+ 164 17-8 261.0 IP 161/66 K/BB 1.057 WHIP 8 CG 1 SHO. Lead the team in innings pitched and wins. Jimmy anchored the staff with Dave Steib throughtout the late 80's and early 90's.

5. Dave Steib 1990 ERA+ 135 18-6 208.7 IP 125/64 K/BB 1.165 WHIP 2 CG 2 SHO, Sept 2 No-hitter vs Cleveland. He had 2 consecutive no-hitters broken up with 2 outs in the 9th inning in 1998 and his no-hitter in 1990 was (and is) the only in Jays history. I believe that they should retire '37' for Dave. He hold most of the pitching records for the team and was such a big part of what built Toronto into the winner it became after his departure.

Bullpen

CL: B.J. Ryan 2006 ERA+ 343 38 SV 72.3 IP 86/20 K/BB 0.857 WHIP. Only 42 Hits and 3 HR allowed. B.J. held opposing batters to a .169 BA and didn't allow an earned run until May 7th. His sneaky delivery, nasty slider, and formidable mound presence makes him an ideal stopper.

Middle Relievers:

1. Mark Eichorn 1986 ERA+ 246 14-6 157.0 IP 166/45 K/BB 10 SV. Mark was a submarine pitcher who burst onto into the league as the Jays primary reliever aside from Tom Henke. His sneaky delivery lead to 166 K in 157 innings in his rookie year along with setting records for Jays rookies in ERA, games, wins, saves, strikeouts, and hit batsmen.

2. Duane Ward 1992 ERA+ 210 7-4 101.3 IP 103/39 K/BB 12 SV. As the primary setup man to Tom Henke, Ward racked up 25 Holds and 12 saves throwing hard heat. He is one of the unsung heroes of the Jays bullpen and he truly gave his career to bring home two championships.

3. Paul Quantrill 1997 ERA+ 238 6-7 88.0 IP 56/17 K/BB. He is the only Canadian on the roster and he deserves to be here. He was the setup man for Kelvim Escobar and was quite successful racking up 15 holds.

4. David Wells 1989 ERA+ 157 7-4 86.3 IP 1.089 WHIP 78 K. Boomer was brought up in through the Jays orgainzation and posted his best ERA in 1989 at 2.40. He was the top middle reliever and lefty specialist and showed his telltale control with a 78/28 K/BB ratio in 86 innings.

5. Justin Speier 2005 ERA+ 173 3-2 66.7 IP 0.945 WHIP 56 K. Speier was the Jays setup man through a retooling phase and threw one of his best seasons walking only 15 batters in 66.7 innings.


Pitching Totals: 137-63 W/L record, 588 Runs scored against.

In theory, this team would have a pythagorean W/L % of 0.750 (122-40) through stellar pitching and a powerful offense. There have been some great players to suit up north of the border. The past 25 years have seen some of the greater individual performances that often went unnoticed south of the border. In the past 25 years, I think it'll be hard to put together a team that can beat this one.
Permalink | Reply
Anonymous Fanatic #7
543 days ago
Score 0+-
These numbers don't comply with the rules. You have multiple seasons in there, 2005 twice, 2006 at least three times. You need to use the bad seasons as well. One each from each year, 1982, 1983, 1984, etc are missing.
Permalink
Darkstar1661Little Leaguer
544 days ago
Score 0+-
Ok, so I quickly added up all the OPS+ and ERA+ to see what the average is for our teams

Looks like we are pretty even so far…

DNL’s Mets:

144.3 OPS+ for Lineup ~ 106.4 OPS+ for Bench 165.8 ERA+ for Rotation ~ 170.6 ERA+ for Bullpen

AntiHippy’s Red Sox:

145.5 OPS+ for Lineup ~ 123 OPS+ for Bench 196 ERA+ for Rotation ~ 296.4 ERA+ for Bullpen

Vaughan’s White Sox:

146.3 OPS+ for Lineup ~ 123.4 OPS for Bench 138.2 ERA+ for Rotation ~ 177.2 ERA+ for Bullpen

Anonymous Blue Jays:

135 OPS+ for Lineup ~ 101.8 OPS+ for Bench 167 ERA+ for Rotation ~ 227 ERA+ for Bullpen

Darkstar’s Indians:

154.8 OPS+ for Lineup ~ 094.5 OPS+ for Bench 157.2 ERA+ for Rotation ~ 207.6 ERA+ for Bullpen

Just hoping my lineup advantage helps my rotation stay in the hunt :)

I think I’m doing ok for having so many shitty teams though!
Permalink | Reply
Anonymous Fanatic #8
544 days ago
Score 0+-
I made one up for the New York Yankees, I'll include OPS+/ERA+. Enjoy:

C: Jorge Posada - 2000 - 134 1B: Don Mattingly - 1985 - 156 (won MVP, set Yankee single season record for doubles) 2B: Alfonso Soriano - 2002 - 131 (keep in mind he went 39-41 that year despite the mediocre OPS+) 3B: Alex Rodriguez - 2005 - 167 (MVP year) SS: Derek Jeter - 1999 - 161 (the Captain's best statistical year) LF: Dave Winfield - 1982 - 142 (I had to use one of the few years he was actually a left fielder for the team) CF: Bernie Williams - 1998 - 159 RF: Paul O'Neill - 1994 - 177 DH: Jason Giambi - 2006 - 154

C: Ron Hassey - 1986 - 131 MIF: Randy Velarde - 1995 - 103 (the weakest ERA+ on the roster) CIF: Kevin Mass - 1990 - 150 OF: Rickey Henderson - 1987 - 145 (only 358 ABs) OF: Oscar Gamble - 1983 - 128

SP1: David Cone - 1996 - 176 (numbers are skewed a bit by injury) SP2: Andy Pettitte - 1997 - 154 SP3: Mike Mussina - 2001 - 142 SP4: Jimmy Key - 1993 - 141 SP5: Melido Perez - 1992 - 137

CL: Mariano Rivera - 2003 - 265 (wish I could have picked that over 300 ERA+ year, but I needed it elsewhere) RP: Tom Gordon - 2004 - 204 RP: John Habyan - 1991 - 180 RP: Lee Gutterman - 1989 - 159 RP: Jay Howell - 1984 - 141

RP: Cecilio Guante - 1988 - 137
Permalink | Reply
Anonymous Fanatic #8
543 days ago
Score 0+-
Batting Order wise I would set up my Yankees:

Derek Jeter; Bernie Williams; Don Mattingly; Alex Rodriguez; Paul O'Neill; Dave Winfield; Jason Giambi; Jorge Posada; Alfonso Soriano

The Lineup Analysis link someone else provided put that at 7.406 runs per game with the high end prediction of 7.560 per game (if it were set as O'Neill, Williams, Giambi, Rodriguez, Jeter, Winfield, Mattingly, Soriano, Posada which doesn't make much baseball sense).
Permalink | Reply
Anonymous Fanatic #8
543 days ago
Score