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Big Papi Overrated... I Think NOT!

18
Vote

by user Bobbyjim45

Disclaimer: This article is in direct response to this, written by Dukeboy999. I was going to just leave this as a comment, but once it got to be over 700 words, I figured it may take up a little too much room. Here it is:

You write an article like this and you better be ready to take some crap from everyone, so here's my rant.

First of all, the point about him not being a great player now because he wasn't great with Minnesota is just plain ridiculous. Have you ever heard of a breakout? It happens to guys all the time. He played with the Twins from age 21-26, still incredibly young. Most guys don't enter their prime until they are 27 or 28 anyway, exactly what David Ortiz did. Just because he was a bit of a late bloomer doesn't make him any less of a hitter right now. Sure, he may not have the career numbers yet, but he'll get there when he keeps hitting 40-50 homers every year. He’s well on his way to putting up these great numbers when you consider that for every 162 games he’s played, his average is 35 homers and 119 RBI, and that includes his seasons with Minnesota where he hadn’t truly developed his power hitting. That’s right on par with guys like Vladimir Guerrero, Jim Thome, and Manny Ramirez.

He also wasn't getting regular playing time in Minnesota since they didn't know what they had. Most guys with skill like that are getting playing time from an early age, allowing them to develop younger. Look at most great hitters like Manny, Guerrero or Derek Jeter. They were regulars at age 23 or 24. Ortiz didn’t have that privilege.

Not only is Ortiz a superstar, I'm going to say he's at least a top 3 hitter in baseball. He leads the world in homers and RBI to go along with a .397 OBP and .628 SLG. Nobody else can boast about having production like that. And that’s not even touching his numbers when given clutch situations.

As for Ortiz being so slow as it’s said, he's really not. While he may not be a blazing speedster, he can really hold his own on the base paths for a guy who’s weight is generously listed at 230. He currently has 21 doubles and 1 triple; more than your beloved Vladimir Guerrero has in each category (19, 0). Not that it’s saying much, but he also has a stolen base and hasn’t been caught stealing. In fact, he’s only been caught stealing twice in his career and both were in 2002 with the Twins.

As for Ortiz getting good pitches simply because he hits in front of Manny, you are simply dead wrong. He's fourth in the league in walks and first in the league in intentional walks. Yes, he is feared so much that hitters would rather face Manny with an extra man on than have to pitch to Ortiz. Basically, late in the game, if first base is open, it's almost a guarantee that pitchers will take their chances with Manny instead of pitch to Big Papi. They don't give him anything to hit if they don't have to.

And don't even tell me that he is not clutch. He isn't the only guy on every major league team who gets into these late game positions, because that is going to balance out in the end. That's what baseball does. He's the only guy who can frequently capitalize on the opportunity when it arises. It's not that easy to do and Ortiz just has a knack for getting it done. If you've ever watched a baseball game, you'd notice that in a lot of games, there are multiple chances for guys to have walkoffs or game tying hits. Every one run game, every extra inning game, every close game with men on base, it happens all the time, but only makes news when somebody comes through and Ortiz usually comes through.

It is also stated that Ortiz has “the best hitter in his era” behind him. Well, if Manny really is the best hitter in his era, why is he hitting BEHIND David Ortiz??? Wouldn't you think Ortiz, and not Mike Lowell or Wily Mo Pena, should be protecting the best hitter in his era? Doesn't that tell you a little something about just how highly Ortiz is valued? And you know what? He backs it up with his numbers. He proves that right now, in his prime, he's even better than "the best hitter in his era". David Ortiz is at least a top 5 player in the MLB right now and he's got the numbers, the talent and the personality to prove it.


Date

Fri 08/11/06, 6:21 am EST


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Jgov05All-American
788 days ago
Score 3+-
I am not even a Red Sox fan, and I 100% agree. That article by Duke was complete crap and I can't believe people even voted for it. I would even one-up you and say that Ortiz is the best hitter in baseball right now.
Permalink | Reply
Dukeboy999Varsity Captain
788 days ago
Score -3+-
How is Ortiz the best hitter. Have you ever heard of Albert Pujols who has no protection. Scott Rolen is nothing compared to Manny.
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Jgov05All-American
788 days ago
Score 3+-
How is Scott Rolen "nothing" compared to Manny? The Pujols-Rolen-Edmonds 3-4-5 was and still is one of the best in the game. Ortiz hits more homers than Pujols and performs better in the clutch. How about this: If Ortiz hit behind Ramirez just imagine how many more RBIs he would have than 110.
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Bball3345Draft Pick
788 days ago
Score 7+-
I'm not a so-called "David Ortiz supporter," but this article is much more convincing and logical than the other one.
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Bball3345Draft Pick
788 days ago
Score 1+-
Although, my MVP vote still goes to Jeter.
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Manny StilesAAA-er
788 days ago
Score 3+-
Jeter isn't MVP of the Yankees
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UfgatorsDiv-I Stud
788 days ago
Score 0+-
then who is?
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Manny StilesAAA-er
788 days ago
Score 1+-
Giambi or Posada ahead of Jeter
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I am a cpcpMajor Leaguer
788 days ago
Score 2+-
It think both you and Duke are right in some regards. Ortiz is a great hitter (which Duke also recognized) and you have some very good points in proving that. The problem is, Ortiz is NOT in a class by himself. So many people are immortalizing him already when he has not set himself about the rest. He leads the league in HRs and RBI, but not by many and those that are only a few behind him have a much better average than Papi's .288. I would take a few less home runs and RBI and a .321 from Albert Pujols any day. Not to mention the fact that if Pujols hadn't been hurt, there an almost 100% guarantee he'd be leading Papi in power catagories as well.

So to sum up, I am a David Ortiz fan, I think he is probably in the top 10 hitters in the league, but he's not the Baseball God he's being made out to be (mostly because of the fact he has a handful of walk-offs). That makes him overrated.
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UfgatorsDiv-I Stud
788 days ago
Score 3+-
you are the peace maker of this site, cpcp. :D
Permalink
I am a cpcpMajor Leaguer
788 days ago
Score 2+-
Why can't we all just give along?! Come on guys, I'm buying the ArmChair GM world a Coca-Cola beverage! Let's sing in harmony!
Permalink
I am a cpcpMajor Leaguer
788 days ago
Score 3+-
GET along. Geez, I can't type for crap today. Glad I don't have any article idea...
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UfgatorsDiv-I Stud
788 days ago
Score 1+-
why cant we all just give along, guys!!
Permalink
I am a cpcpMajor Leaguer
788 days ago
Score 2+-
Don't make me remove my UfGators fan box! :-)
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FriskysmanVarsity Captain
788 days ago
Score -4+-
The steroids have definitely helped him step up his game in the last few years, but when it comes down to it, he won't have the longevity to be considered an all-time great. *runs for cover*
Permalink | Reply
Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
788 days ago
Score 2+-
I didn't realize Snickers were considered a steroid.
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Dukeboy999Varsity Captain
788 days ago
Score -5+-
Ya I have heard of a break out its called steroids. i.e. Barry Bonds hitting 73 which was his first season more than 50. How is 140 games in Minnesota not regular playing time? Wow all of one stolen base? If hes such a good hitter he wouldnt keep hitting into the shift when the whole left side is wide open.
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Jgov05All-American
788 days ago
Score 3+-
Because he's a pull hitter! Many of the best in the game are. Also I'd like to site this (http://www.h...;type=hitter) and show that he has roughly 6 oppostie field homers. So he can hit to the left sometimes.
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Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
788 days ago
Score 3+-
Saying that also disproves the point that Ortiz is overrated because he has the short porch of the monster.
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The sharkDraft Pick
788 days ago
Score 1+-
Because he only ever had one season in minnesota where he had more than 400 at bats!!!! And no seasons in Minnesota over 450!!!! If you're going to contributr here (which I have no particular problem with) please get your facts straight.
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Dukeboy999Varsity Captain
788 days ago
Score -3+-
Look Im sorry if Im bein a little to harsh, ill workon it. Just dont write about obvious stuff like athletes just started breaking rules.
Permalink | Reply
Bball3345Draft Pick
788 days ago
Score 3+-
If you don't like it, then don't vote for it.
Permalink
UfgatorsDiv-I Stud
788 days ago
Score -1+-
dukeboy999 did have some positive replies in his article. it just goes to show you that we have many different opinions, and half the people on the site like this article, half the people like the other article. in my opinion, david ortiz is clutch; nothing more, nothing less. why dont we leave it at that? I propose a SHOWDOWN between dukeboy and bobbyjim. how about it?
Permalink | Reply
I am a cpcpMajor Leaguer
788 days ago
Score -1+-
I think that might end up in a nuclear war of some sorts. Don't start it until I'm in my bunker.
Permalink
UfgatorsDiv-I Stud
788 days ago
Score -1+-
its been way too long since we had a showdown. come on guys!! cpcp, kick back and enjoy the show
Permalink
I am a cpcpMajor Leaguer
788 days ago
Score -1+-
I don't care if there's a showdown, I'm just worried about these two fellas :-)
Permalink
Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
788 days ago
Score 1+-
I mean, if Duke wants to, I'm game, but I almost think it would be beating a dead horse. People seem to be getting sick of the subject, but if Duke wants to start it up, I'll defend my boy.
Permalink
Anonymous Fanatic #1
788 days ago
Score -2+-
Even Bill Simmons admits to the possibility of steroids with Ortiz. Just look at the jump in his numbers from 98-02 to 03-06. He has been twice as good in the recent period than he was in the earlier. And if you look at old photos of him with the Twins and compare them to now, he's definitely gotten bigger. Not Barry Bonds bigger, but bigger nonetheless.
Permalink | Reply
Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
788 days ago
Score 2+-
Maybe it's just because I'm highly biased, but I just don't think so. I was always under the impression that steroids just increased muscle tone and it seems like is mostly just full of cotton candy, pizza and Hershey's bars. Maybe I'm wrong... correct me if I am.
Permalink
Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
788 days ago
Score 1+-
If you look at guys like Bonds, McGwire and Sosa, they were big in a muscular sort of way, unlike Ortiz.
Permalink
Anonymous Fanatic #1
788 days ago
Score -3+-
Personally I don't think Boston fans should be allowed to have an opinion on the subject. Of course they're going to be biased about their hero. The fact that Simmons admitted to the possibility is countered by the fact that he did so in a column where he was comparing Papi to Larry Bird. Nobody wants to believe Papi is juicing because everybody loves him, just like everybody wants to believe Bonds is juicing because they all hate him. Ortiz has the same sort of circumstantial connections to steroids that Bonds does but nobody will ever accuse him. That's just how it's going to be. But if you look at the evidence, no matter how circumstanial, I don't see how you can't feel at least a little suspicious. What would you say if Nick Johnon suddenly started hitting 40-50 homeruns a year at the age of 27 after a track record of about 15 homeruns per year? You're telling me you wouldn't find that a little fishy? Can you imagine Nick Johnson being the best hitter in baseball 4 years from now? Ridiculous, right? And 4 years ago you would have thought the same thing about Ortiz. That just doesn't happen under normal circumstances.
Permalink
PeanMajor Leaguer
788 days ago
Score 1+-
"What happened to Poppy?" "Well, Poppy is a little sloppy"
Permalink | Reply
The sharkDraft Pick
787 days ago
Score 1+-
Seinfeld reference #8 of the month. Nice work!
Permalink
Anonymous Fanatic #2
778 days ago
Score -1+-
Jeter is up in the ninth with 2 outs and ties the game with a hit.

Big Sloppy is up in the bottom of the 10th with 2 outs and? Pops out.

HUGELY overrated.
Permalink | Reply
Bobbyjim45Draft Pick
775 days ago
Score 1+-
Yes, because it's humanly possible to come up with a homer in the clutch every single time you come up to bat. Sure, that makes him way overrated.
Permalink
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Retrieved from "http://www.armchairgm.com/Big_Papi_Overrated..._I_Think_NOT%21"

This page was last modified 11:26, 11 August 2006. Content is available under the GFDL.

Categories: Opinions | MLB Opinions | Boston Red Sox Opinions | David Ortiz Opinions | August 11, 2006 | Opinions by User Bobbyjim45

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