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Afraidofedhochuli
Voted 2007 ArmchairGM User's choice for "Best NFL Coverage"

http://www.afraidofedhochuli.com

Because thanks to our fear of death in this country, I won't have to die...I'll pass away... - George Carlin

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The Olympic Torch: A Hostile Hochuli Editorial

by Afraidofedhochuli
created April 07, 2008, last edited October 13, 2008
31
Vote

Look, I am all for a good protest, and I believe that China does a lot of inhumane things to prisoners and Communist dissenters, but this is getting out of hand.

The Olympic torch is taking its trip around the world like it does before every Olympics; however, there has been a lot of opposition to the China games due to their treatment of countries such as Tibet.

"They are doing it at all the landmarks in the cities that are hosting the Olympic torch," said Tenzing Dasang, a member of Students for a Free Tibet, an activist group which he said planned the action.
Three Doofuses climbed the Golden Gate Bridge to protest China
Three Doofuses climbed the Golden Gate Bridge to protest China

Which action? Well, how about this: (From ESPN) Three pro-Tibet activists scaled the cables of San Francisco's famed Golden Gate Bridge and hung banners on Monday to protest the arrival of the Olympic torch in the city on Wednesday.

That’s right…three people climbed the Golden Gate Bridge to show their displeasure.

This isn’t the only one. There have been protests in London, Paris as well as many countries discussing the boycotting of the opening ceremonies.

"I think the Chinese government did underestimate the extent to which the Olympics was going to become a vehicle and target for protest," said James Mann, former Beijing bureau chief for the Los Angeles Times.

I think there should be protests, and I even think that there should be some boycotts…but putting your life in danger is just ridiculous. Yes, you want to make a point, but you don’t need to do that by getting arrested for climbing a San Francisco Bridge.  

It has also turned into a massive political issue here in the States. You now have several people telling President Bush that he should boycott the opening ceremonies because of the crackdowns in Tibet and other human rights abuses.

"At this time, and in light of recent events, I believe President Bush should not plan on attending the opening ceremonies in Beijing, absent major changes by the Chinese government," Hillary Clinton said in a released statement.  

The last leg of the Paris trip had to be cut short due to the Olympic torch being continually extinguished.

This goes back to my political stance (give me just a few sentences), while I agree that a country pressing another country and performing human rights violations is absolutely deplorable, what the country does “in-house” is up to them. Who are we to step into their country and tell them that their culture is wrong? Again, when that spills into other countries and other cultures, then it is a problem, but until then it is not our responsibility. In fact it is irresponsible to expect other countries to be America Junior.

What will a protest do?

It was thought back when they gave the games to China, that the Olympics would help the world’s-view of the Communist country, as well as open communication with them about ending the violations. Now, the world sees this as just another way for China to impose Communism on the world and a time to show their displeasure.

But will the protesting help? Remember 1980? Well, the United States decided to boycott the Moscow games because the U.S.S.R had rolled their tanks into Afghanistan. 64 other countries joined the fight, leaving Moscow with a very minimal field of athletes. The problem is, even with the boycott, Afghanistan was still occupied by the Soviets until 1988. Maybe it helped, but not enough.

In fact, it was more damaging to the athletes then it was to the Soviets’ attack on Afghanistan.

Players like Craig Beardsley never had another chance to go back. "What really hits home to me about the boycott was the Soviets didn't pull out of Afghanistan for nine years," Tracy Caulkins Stockwell [swimmer] said. "Did it put any pressure on them? No, it was just a missed opportunity for many athletes. It just doesn't seem fair."  

In 1984 the Soviets and East Germans boycotted the Los Angeles games, where Caulkins won three gold medals. Beardsley didn’t have the chance. “If it was going to do some good, then we could sacrifice. But as time went on, as we realized what little impact it had, I became angry for what the boycott did to all these people, my friends and teammates, and people in all those other countries too."

This isn’t to say that we shouldn’t boycott certain things, but if we are so angry with what they do then why not cut them off like we did with Cuba? Oh, right, because of money.

From: Afraidofedhochuli

Enable Comment Auto-Refresher
The PipDiv-I Stud
189 days ago
Score 4+-
Well done. An honest and accurate assessment of the situation. You missed a few things, but you are on the right track. All of this will do nothing to accomplish the goal of freeing Tibet, in fact it will only make things worse.
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CoreyisarealboyMajor Leaguer
189 days ago
Score 5+-
You guys are missing the point of protests. Protests are not going to change a thing. What protests and boycotts will do will bring light to a situation that an otherwise oblivious bunch of people (Americans) would ignore because they're watching people compete in a clothes designing competition on Bravo. Case in point? You're talking about it on a sports site. Did they accomplish their goal. Hell yes they did, and perhaps you should consider telling others about the injustice being done to Tibet and other nations around the world rather than bitching about the guys hanging banners from national landmarks, because if you were talking about it, they probably wouldn't have to.
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AfraidofedhochuliDraft Pick
188 days ago
Score 2+-
Corey:

That is a good point. I am very "anti-America" when it comes to our foreign policy. The problem is, I tried to tie it in to sports. I don't write a political blog, so I didn't want to go all the way into it.

Yes they accomplished their goal. The point of any protest is to open eyes, I know, I have been part of a few, and was around for the WTO potests in the late 90's here in Seattle (the media blew it way out of proportion). The point I am trying to make, regarding sports is that it only hurts the athletes involved.

And yes, I say the protest on the Golden Gate bridge was silly, ecause it is in my mind. I can't imagine myself ever dangling 40 stories in the air to hang a banner. And I can only write from my opinion.

Thank you for your comment, though. I was expecting to get a bunch of angry people yelling at me about how stupid America is (which...well...we can be).

P.S. Project Runway is awesome. Dude...it's actually a reality show based on merit...not popularity. We can have a conversation about reality TV if you want, but that one at least rewards people for talent.
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JuTMSY4Hall of Famer
188 days ago
Score 5+-
What protests and boycotts will do will bring light to a situation that an otherwise oblivious bunch of people (Americans) would ignore because they're watching people compete in a clothes designing competition on Bravo. I really wish you wouldn't make such blanket statements, I consider it rude, offensive and damaging to your points
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CoreyisarealboyMajor Leaguer
188 days ago
Score 1+-
Matt, I definitely agree that it would hurt athletes. I don't think there are any qualms about that. But what is better for society, missing the playing of a game or not allowing the oppression of an entire group of people.

(By the way, I agree PR is a great show, and I watch it too, but the point was that there are more important things to worry about.)

Justin, would you rather have me sugar coat the general sentiment that an average American feels toward current events around the world? In class this morning, the professor asked the class about the polygamist situation in Texas, and only three of us knew about it. Blanket statement it may be, but it's not that far of a stretch.
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SSreportersLegend
188 days ago
Score 1+-
Okay, if we are trying to stop the oppression of a nation in Tibet, then other countries should have the right to stop....us from killing thousands in Iraq, and of course our soldiers and their soldiers. Yes, that may lead to World War III but if we are essentially the leader in trying to "Free Tibet" then the rest of the world should "Free Iraq".
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JuTMSY4Hall of Famer
188 days ago
Score 1+-
Maybe to end oppression we should just send in troops? Has that been done before? Does this sound Familiar?
Permalink
CoreyisarealboyMajor Leaguer
188 days ago
Score 2+-
If you know anything about my political beliefs, you'd know that I don't think we should be in Iraq either. My point is that with all the ways we've hurt our image as good samaritans and helped our image as the world's bully, the nationwide support of Tibetan freedom certainly would go a long way in rectifying our mistakes. The problem is this: our government will never do this because we have nothing to gain by freeing Tibet and only diplomatic relations with China to lose. Do you really think this greedy, capitalist society would ever let that happen? No, which is why we're still in Iraq.
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CoreyisarealboyMajor Leaguer
188 days ago
Score 2+-
How'd that work out the last couple times? Vietnam? Not so well. Afghanistan? Not so well. Iraq? Not so well. Progress? I don't think so.
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JuTMSY4Hall of Famer
188 days ago
Score 1+-
fascinating situation in Texas...I'm guessing Mitt Romney isn't gonna run as VP either?
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SSreportersLegend
188 days ago
Score 0+-
Ha.
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Sj-hypocycloidRed-Shirting
188 days ago
Score 2+-
I am hardly a political scholar, but I don't think it's that simple. Whether or not one agrees with the situation in Iraq, we're stuck now. Leaving at this point might be worse than staying. I'm also getting a little tired of Americans bashing America. I'd rather be here than anywhere else. Maybe that's insular of me, but I am happy to be American.
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CoreyisarealboyMajor Leaguer
188 days ago
Score 0+-
Yikes. Thankfully all Mormons aren't like that. The ultimate hypocrisy with that is our first amendment protects it.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Hall of Famer
188 days ago
Score 0+-
Actually, I haven't really heard many people complain about the Afghani war...in fact, all candidates (the legit ones) supported and do support that effort...
Permalink
CoreyisarealboyMajor Leaguer
188 days ago
Score 0+-
Sj, didn't you know that dissent is the ultimate sign of patriotism?
Permalink
Sj-hypocycloidRed-Shirting
188 days ago
Score 1+-
Even if you are interefering in another's affairs? A revolution is one thing. Telling a nation what you think they should do...and issuing threats is another.
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JuTMSY4Hall of Famer
188 days ago
Score 2+-
I find it hard to say we should stay in Iraq because I'm not there personally...Its difficult to come to grips (voting-wise) with a president who wants to stay because I've had friends go there and I'd like to see them come home... Who am I (a college student) to send them to death for reasons I'm not so sure are clear...
Permalink
AfraidofedhochuliDraft Pick
188 days ago
Score 2+-
Fredrick Douglas said “it is a lover of one’s country who rebukes and does not excuse its sins.”
Permalink
CoreyisarealboyMajor Leaguer
188 days ago
Score 1+-
Actually I was referring to the Afghani situation in the first Bush administration.
Permalink
Steel TownAll-American
188 days ago
Score 2+-
I wonder what would happen if part of America tried to secede from the Union?
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JuTMSY4Hall of Famer
188 days ago
Score 2+-
ah yes, the war of southern submission...i've read about it...
Permalink
CheezerMajor Leaguer
188 days ago
Score 2+-
As we talk about Tibet and Taiwan, do not forget the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989.


On another note: "This isn’t to say that we shouldn’t boycott certain things, but if we are so angry with what they do then why not cut them off like we did with Cuba?"

As a person doing business with China in order to stay competitive, I ask myself that question all the time.
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Hall of Famer
188 days ago
Score 2+-
we should totally spurn the fastest growing economy in the world... if times are tough now, yuo ain't see nothin' yet
Permalink
CoreyisarealboyMajor Leaguer
188 days ago
Score 2+-
Maybe we should, Justin, unless you would rather continue the deterioration of our environment, for China is also the fastest growing carbon dioxide emitter.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Hall of Famer
188 days ago
Score 0+-
1.6 billion people! The US has roughly 300 mil and is almost double that of china...
Permalink
Steel TownAll-American
188 days ago
Score 3+-
Unfortunately, to me at least, the environment takes a backseat to putting food on my table.
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SSreportersLegend
188 days ago
Score 1+-
JuT, have you seen some of us? At this rate, we'll have 300 million but weight the equivalent of 1.6 billion people.
Permalink
CoreyisarealboyMajor Leaguer
188 days ago
Score 2+-
...Because switching to renewable energy resources worldwide is going to affect putting food on your table...? I don't get what you're saying.
Permalink
SSreportersLegend
188 days ago
Score 0+-
Weigh.*
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AfraidofedhochuliDraft Pick
188 days ago
Score 1+-
the amount of people isn't relative to theoir CO2 output. They have lax restrictions on their factories, etc, making it easier to pump crap nto the air.
Permalink
Steel TownAll-American
188 days ago
Score 1+-
Because a trade embargo with China (like Cuba) would be devastating to the US economy. It has nothing to do with cleaning our own act and getting "greener" as a nation.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Hall of Famer
188 days ago
Score 2+-
SSR, the US pop is a hair over 300 mil and produces 5.5 million tons of CO2...China's is 1.6 bil and produces 3.5 million tons...

So yeah, the US produces a lot more...and personally, I got rid of my car a few years ago (long story) and have used public transportation almost exclusively...Moreover, because of the high cost of oil, my roommates and I have cut our use of heat and electricity (in all honesty) because we can't afford using it...

It has less to do with the environment and more to do with money..
Permalink
CheezerMajor Leaguer
188 days ago
Score 1+-
A colleague of mine speaks of a Chinese manager who struck one of his employees because she had the impertinence to ask the American a question.


Without us, they wouldn't be the fastest growing economy on the planet. They do not have the market to sustain their production. If Chinese companies don't maintain their production levels, they will have trouble staying open. Their margins are too slim.


FYI, I subscribe to a Chinese Trade Journal.


Of course, I would love for an international economist to chime in.
Permalink
CoreyisarealboyMajor Leaguer
188 days ago
Score 3+-
Actually, what's hurting our economy so much now is the price of oil. When people have to pay so much for one commodity, they can't afford to pay for other things. Why do you think the housing market is so shitty? Supply and demand blows. And the oil companies justify the prices with that statement. They're following the laws of supply and demand, and now that we're running out of oil and have no reliance on anything else, we're forced to pay the prices they set, and have no money to put food on our table. I think maybe we should worry about the economical disaster at hand before worrying about one that may or may not happen.
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SSreportersLegend
188 days ago
Score 1+-
I was making an obesity joke, I said nothing about CO2! But thanks for the info anyway.
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JuTMSY4Hall of Famer
188 days ago
Score 1+-
Partially right corey...

Oil is based on the dollar, so when the fed reduced rates, which causes inflation, the price went up...you'll note Europeans haven't cared because their price has remained the same (as the US dollar has weakened)

The shitty housing market was a natural bust (after a major boom) spurned on by some stupid investments (same thing in 2000 w/ techs)...who'd a thunk selling mortgages to people who can't afford them would not work?

Thanks to that, supply upped and therefore demand went down...

If supply and demand were so bad, then you wouldn't be using a computer over a broadband connection right now...
Permalink
Sj-hypocycloidRed-Shirting
188 days ago
Score 1+-
Isn't China now the largest consumer of oil? No need to wonder why oil prices are so high.
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CoreyisarealboyMajor Leaguer
188 days ago
Score 2+-
And hence the largest growing emitter of CO2. And it doesn't matter whether they produce less per capita, they still produce it and it's still hurting our environment. And we're doing nothing to stop it here or there.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Hall of Famer
188 days ago
Score 2+-
OPEC and COPEC (? - the south american version) are the ones in control...

Its actually quite an interesting problem...

OPEC (Countries that produce lots of oil, like Saudi Arabia and Venezuela) limit oil product to drive up price...which makes sense from their end...

Now with conflict in Iraq, they've gotten more control. venezuela hates the US, so they limit it as well...and Russia is (most likely) propogating some conflict as they control a lot of oil and are simply taking advantage...

Russia is the biggest perpetrator of the current problem, even though the MIddle Eastern countries have been doing it for years...
Permalink
Steel TownAll-American
188 days ago
Score 1+-
"Without us, they wouldn't be the fastest growing economy on the planet." Not that I disagree with you cheezer, But do you really want to risk a shaky US economy calling china's bluff?
Permalink
CheezerMajor Leaguer
188 days ago
Score 2+-
As someone who lives in the midwest, let me say that oil isn't the biggest cause of the housing issues.

Specific example being Detroit. For every person that moves into the Detroit area, several move out due to the slumping economy and layoffs. Therefore there is a three year glut of houses on the market. Therefore nothing is selling.

Many of these houses that aren't selling are going into foreclosure and adversely affecting the lenders. These are the same lenders that were giving interest only loans several years ago. Now, they've made it more difficult for everyone to get a mortgage. Hence, houses aren't moving as fast elsewhere in the country.
Permalink
CoreyisarealboyMajor Leaguer
188 days ago
Score 0+-
If you guys haven't already, watch the documentary "The End of Suburbia."
Permalink
JuTMSY4Hall of Famer
188 days ago
Score 2+-
really good point cheezer...really good... Definitely look up Goldman-Sachs CFO's take on it...the guy's a genius and pulled GS out waaaayyy before the sub-prime crash...
Permalink
Sj-hypocycloidRed-Shirting
188 days ago
Score 4+-
No anti-American statement (or pro-China) here, but I wonder what Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Bush would tell another nation attempting to tell the USA how to run things? I have a feeling that sentiment would not be received well.
Permalink | Reply
AfraidofedhochuliDraft Pick
188 days ago
Score 0+-
i would hope that just because you have a dissenting opinion you wouldn't be seen asn anti-american... oh, wait...
Permalink
Steel TownAll-American
188 days ago
Score 2+-
You know who I really feel for is those poor French Canadiens, all they want is independence.
Permalink | Reply
SSreportersLegend
188 days ago
Score 1+-
But where am I going to get my poutine?
Permalink
AfraidofedhochuliDraft Pick
188 days ago
Score 1+-
And my Molson.
Permalink
AfraidofedhochuliDraft Pick
188 days ago
Score 7+-
This is in response to no one. What gives "Democratic" nations the right to tell other countries what to do? I have heard people saying that we should condmen muslims because of their treatment of women. Well, last I checked our Constitution gives people within the borders of America to practice religion, cultures, etc. how they want.

I didn't realize that it meant we are to travel to other countries and tell them how to think.

Now, as I said in the article, when a country decides to opress or attack another country (see: WWI) then we have a responsibility to assist if asked. When did we become the "World Police". (please no Trey Parker/Matt Stone references)
Permalink | Reply
Sj-hypocycloidRed-Shirting
188 days ago
Score 5+-
There is truth to this. Nations resent true or perceived interference. The US certainly does. And rightly so.
Permalink
Steel TownAll-American
188 days ago
Score 3+-
Its a fine line to tread. At what point does it go from cultural differences to outright oppression and abuse?
Permalink
SSreportersLegend
188 days ago
Score 3+-
I'm sorry, even if Tibetans are getting bludgeoned to death, having another country tell them what to do isn't exactly always the right way...... Isn't controlling and forcing other countries into doing what you're doing not "democracy" as I read?
Permalink
JuTMSY4Hall of Famer
188 days ago
Score 1+-
Welcome to the real world... a prime example is the fundamentalist islamic society's treament of women...but who are we to tell them what is right?
Permalink
Steel TownAll-American
188 days ago
Score 2+-
There is a big difference between a group feeling that they should have independence, and a group of people being slaughtered.
Permalink
AfraidofedhochuliDraft Pick
188 days ago
Score 2+-
that's very true, it is all subjective. hence why we have international laws on torture and human rights. That way at least it is more laid out then it is up to a certain person
Permalink
Sj-hypocycloidRed-Shirting
188 days ago
Score 2+-
Steel Town - I see what you're saying. But I worry that we get overextended. There are a lot of things that need to be handled in the US. I'd rather see some more attention given at home. I am not unsympathetic to the abuses around the world. But a lot of the time, the USA's humanitarian efforts are seen as meddling and underappreciated. When there is a disaster in some far off nation, the US always responds with aid packages and efforts to help. I am not sure that this same effort comes to us in our times of need.
Permalink
AfraidofedhochuliDraft Pick
188 days ago
Score 4+-
I want to take this chance to say thank you to all of you for a good discussion. Remember a few weeks ago when someone would be sayign things just to get the others angry?
Permalink | Reply
JuTMSY4Hall of Famer
188 days ago
Score 3+-
Excellent point...

No one's being pissy and the conversation is moving along/developing

I appreciate Corey's insight even though we seem to disagree...I always struggle with liberal views (i'm a fan of little gov't, which as you can see is not exactly the current Bush system either), but you can't argue with some of the merits...
Permalink
Sj-hypocycloidRed-Shirting
188 days ago
Score 3+-
I agree. Kudos to you for a thought-provoking and well written article.
Permalink
CoreyisarealboyMajor Leaguer
188 days ago
Score 3+-
I knew most of the points of views I was going to be faced with when I made my first statement and expected to get into a good debate.
Permalink
AfraidofedhochuliDraft Pick
188 days ago
Score 2+-
thanks, SJ. This is to all of you: When I signed up here, i was hoping this is what we would have, and now that "SS"Reporters has cracked down on fools (you know i love you man) we seem to be without the "trolls".
Permalink
JuTMSY4Hall of Famer
188 days ago
Score 4+-
uh, merits with liberal ideals...not merits with the bush system currently...which pretty much sucks...
Permalink
CoreyisarealboyMajor Leaguer
188 days ago
Score 4+-
At least we can agree on something, Justin :).
Permalink
Steel TownAll-American
188 days ago
Score 5+-
Yeah, without a certain someone, this debate is going alot better than the National Anthem debate.
Permalink
JuTMSY4Hall of Famer
188 days ago
Score 3+-
I blame the dems for not putting up a viable candidate...they keep putting up idealists (Obama is an example)...

the one thing about hillary is, you know what you're getting with her and you know she'll do things...

American doesn't handle idealists well though, so If its Obama - McCain, I don't see it happening for the Dems again...

Anyways, my point is sorta this Corey: I believe that things should be much more of a meritocracy...affirmative action (for example) is total bullshit. But for us to achieve that, we need to pump some funds (and more gov't involvement) into things like the education system, so that we can put everyone on a level playing field...

and not "No child left behind" which is a fraudulent plan to teach to a test...I'm talking about 50k + for starting teachers and some sick perks...
Permalink
CoreyisarealboyMajor Leaguer
188 days ago
Score 1+-
I agree, but you aren't going to get that with the current trend of Republicans running. They're too concerned with holding the party platform firm on the Iraq situation.
Permalink
TheSportsAppleAll-American
188 days ago
Score 4+-
I just read this article and all of the comments. Good solid debate. I'm not an expert in polictics so i won't throw my "2 cents" in but jsut wanted to say that I think everyone that contributed to this has made, at elast for me, a thought provoking topic of discussion
Permalink | Reply
MegECass110AAA-er
188 days ago
Score 3+-
In other news, Kansas won the national championship!

Seriously, well done, gentlemen. Good points, good debate, I came away with a better understanding of the current foreign policy situation.

We've talked in our American foreign policy class about how anti-Americanism gets confused with anti-administration sentiment. My prof thinks the current perspective on America is more anti-administration, and that things will change (slightly) when a new president is elected. That's certainly not to say everyone will love us when Dubya leaves, but anything can be better than what it is right now.
Permalink | Reply
Taytay 24All-American
187 days ago
Score 2+-
Your prof is partly right, Meg. As an American living overseas, here is my general experience: People who know me personally can make the distinction between the administration, the country as a whole, and me as an individual. People who do not know me personally cannot, and are known to make assumptions and accusations.
Permalink
LASportsblogAAA-er
187 days ago
Score 1+-
Taytay: It must be tough to deal with stereotypes and generalizations. It's even tougher when it happens to you in your own country amongst your own people...
Permalink
Taytay 24All-American
187 days ago
Score 0+-
My trick is to keep my mouth shut so as not to reveal myself. Not an option for you, really.
Permalink
LASportsblogAAA-er
187 days ago
Score 1+-
Nope =) they kinda look at me, look at their hands and their brains process "He different skin tone. He no look like me. He different."
Permalink
LASportsblogAAA-er
187 days ago
Score 1+-
Matt, I respect your position and your viewpoint on this. You've done a very solid job of presenting your case and keeping your emotions from overtaking your editorial. Nice work, I'll save my own opinions and let the conversation continue as it has.
Permalink | Reply
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Categories: Opinions | Opinions by User Afraidofedhochuli | April 7, 2008 | April 2008 | China Opinions | Hostile Hochuli Editorial Opinions | Los Angeles Opinions | Moscow Opinions | Olympics Opinions

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