armchairgm
all sports, all you
+ Add Friends
You are not logged-in.
Sign Up - Log In
Main Page
Sports
Write
Articles
Hot Links
Images
Meet People
Fun
Explore
MLB - NFL - NBA - NHL - College Basketball - College Football - Soccer - Nascar - Other
Article - Locker Room Discussion
All Articles - New Articles - Today's Articles
Submit a Link - Approve Links
Picture Game - Ratings - Polls - Pick Game - Quiz Game - Spring Silliness
Random Page - Random Image - Random Fan
Edit
Page history Discuss pageWhat links here

A different view of the Greatest Ever - Bobby Orr and the NoMoreOrr.com idiots!

8
Vote

by user 74.96.83.244

Recently I came upon a website that absolutely astounded me. My jaw dropped when I saw www.nomoreorr.com, a site claiming that Bobby Orr was not one of, if not THE greatest ever, but in fact a SHAME on hockey! Who are these people?

They not only claim that Bobby Orr should not be in the Hall of Fame, but they claim that Bobby Orr ruined hockey! The idiots owning this site even go as far as to have an Official Petition to remove Bobby Orr from the Hall. They have a list of reasons Orr is overrated and an Official Blog in which they document different things about Orr.

Everyone should go to this site and tell these assholes how stupid they are.


Enable Comment Auto-Refresher
Davis21wylieAll-Star
436 days ago
Score 1+-
All I can figure is that it has to be some kind of a joke site. Orr is not only easily the greatest defenceman of all time, but maybe the best all-around player in NHL history, #99 included. If it's not intended as satire, that site borders on sacrilege.
Permalink | Reply
KelsdadAll-Star
436 days ago
Score 2+-
Visiting the site is what they want us to do, so we should just not bother.
Permalink | Reply
Davis21wylieAll-Star
436 days ago
Score 7+-
I wonder if this (Anon) opinion is kind of "reverse trolling" from the NoMoreOrr creators -- an attempt to get people to visit through reverse psychology?
Permalink
DNLLegend
435 days ago
Score 0+-
DDub, I was thinking that too. comment+1
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
436 days ago
Score 0+-
Good point. Maybe we can ask an administrator to delete the article.
Permalink | Reply
Davis21wylieAll-Star
436 days ago
Score 1+-
I'm actually an administrator, but I'd hate to delete it if it turns out to be legit. We should probably just let the votes dictate whether people think it's worthy or not.
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
436 days ago
Score 1+-
The curiosity was killing me. I just went and checked it out. Nothing but unsubstantiated nonsense. D21, I know you're big on adjusted stats, they do one there that just blew my mind. Totally ridiculous. Everyone has a right to express their opinion, but......
Permalink | Reply
Davis21wylieAll-Star
436 days ago
Score 1+-
My adjusted stats actually show Orr to be, at his peak, the greatest D-man in NHL history. By my pet method, his 1971 season (when he had 102 assists, 139 points, and was +124) is the greatest season by a skater in NHL history -- better than any of Gretzky's years. Can you imagine how he was +124, even on that team? Crazy. From the looks of it, this site's "adjusted stats" are garbage, they don't even explain the method. They should face it, Orr was the sh*t.
Permalink
TylersaltAll-Star
436 days ago
Score 0+-
Someone over there posted an article here a couple months ago which was just a plain shill for it. Definitely a load of crap.
Permalink | Reply
KelsdadAll-Star
436 days ago
Score 1+-
I saw Orr play, he was just like Gretzky and Howe...ahead of his time. The end to end rushes weren't because the other players sucked, but because he was just better. He was viewed as a puck hog, in those days passing was much more a part of the game than it is today. While I won't go as far as put Orr ahead of Gretzky, he's definitely up there. Do me a favor, will you Davis? Post your version of Orr's adjusted.
Permalink | Reply
Davis21wylieAll-Star
436 days ago
Score 0+-
I wish I could have seen him play in person. I've only seen video of him, but in it he is flat-out unbelievable, at both ends. Beyond just the rushing (which was completely unprecedented at the time), he controlled the game like no other defenceman before or since. I envy you for being able to see him when he played.

As for the stats... I'm using this guy's method, in which he compares a player to the replacement level at his position and arrives at basically VORP (which I know you're not a fan of, but still) -- the # of goals the player was worth beyond a 4th-line forward/6th D-man type. Offense is based on something similar to my goals created method; defense is judged by individual +/- vs. the team's +/- (for years before +/-, overall team D is used). The numbers are normalized to a neutral goal-scoring environment and an 80-game schedule. It's kind of a crude method, but the results look right...

Here's Orr's career line:

Image:OrrStats.jpg

For comparison's sake, here are the 30 best non-goalie seasons since 1952:

Image:Top30AlltimeNHL.jpg

Seasons over 40.0 VORP are elite, and Orr had six (almost 7) straight in his prime. 1971 was monstrous, and for a defenceman, those offensive numbers are off the charts. Orr was the real deal. Here's a great YouTube video of his highlights -- many of the plays are just jaw-dropping.
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
436 days ago
Score 1+-
That's awesome! Funny how the "old-timers" sucked but there are only three active players on your list.

At about the two minute mark of the video there's a play against the Rangers where he splits the two defenseman and scores. See how he accelerated? Amazing.

In 1972, when Team Canada beat Russia, (best hockey team, ever) Orr was the key. The Russians had always played the end to end rushing style Orr played, carrying the puck into the offensive zone instead of the US/Canada dump and chase style. So when they first saw Orr they didn't have a game plan for him, Russia assumed we would dump and chase as usual and when Orr and Espo and Hull and the others started rushing they couldn't stop them. Not only was he stronger than the Russian forwards he was also faster, just went right by them.

That series meant more to hockey than any other, including the 1980 Olympics. Orr single-handedly changed the way hockey was played, and, along with Gretzky, are the two most influential players in hockey history.
Permalink | Reply
Davis21wylieAll-Star
436 days ago
Score 2+-
That's why the claim that Orr wouldn't cut it today is 1,000,000% bogus. His skating ability was unreal, and it was on old-school skates and older rinks/ice surfaces -- imagine how a guy with his speed and agility would be able to exploit today's technology. He'd be a cerebral Nicklas Lidstrom-type of defenseman in his own zone, with the hands and puck control skills of a Jaromir Jagr, and he'd also be the league's fastest skater. What a scary thought!
Permalink
KelsdadAll-Star
436 days ago
Score 1+-
That's actually a great point about the skate and ice conditions, because his knee injury was a result of bad ice. So with today's flex boots on the skates and better surfaces he likely would not have been injured, at least not as severely as he was. Important thing to know, Orr was an OFFENSIVE defenseman. From strictly a defense standpoint, there were better defenseman in the league. As great as he was with his feet, it was a motion greatness, meaning his best attributes were while he was moving. If he was caught in the defensive zone and was either still or caught going the wrong way, he would get beat 100% of the time. Teams would attack him in the zone because he had trouble in close quarters. Some defenseman excel in front of the net or in the corners, this was Orr's weakness.
Permalink | Reply
Davis21wylieAll-Star
436 days ago
Score 0+-
Very true about defense (I may have been getting more and more carried away on each successive comment on Orr!). Although I think you could say the same thing about Lidstrom, who isn't physical at all but still manages to completely dominate the game. But, while I admit I don't really know how good Orr was positionally in his own zone, I'm sure there were times in which his rushing hung his D partner and his goalie out to dry, something that rarely happens to Lidstrom. So he'd be a rich man's Brian Leetch circa 1991-92, I suppose.
Permalink
Davis21wylieAll-Star
436 days ago
Score 2+-
It being 1:49 AM here, I'm going to hit the hay, but first I'd like to say thanks for a very intelligent hockey discussion, something you don't see too much around here. I'm impressed with your knowledge of the game, I guess I figured you for a baseball-only guy all this time!
Permalink
Add your Comment
ArmchairGM welcomes all comments. If you don't want to be anonymous, Register or Login. It's free


Retrieved from "http://www.armchairgm.com/A_different_view_of_the_Greatest_Ever_-_Bobby_Orr_and_the_NoMoreOrr.com_idiots%21"

This page was last modified 23:14, 26 April 2007. Content is available under the GFDL.

Categories: Opinions | Opinions by User 74.96.83.244 | April 26, 2007 | Hockey Opinions | NHL Opinions | Boston Bruins Opinions | National Hockey League Opinions | Bobby Orr Opinions | Hall of Fame Opinions
Main Page About Special Pages Help Terms of Use Advertise